VAL Digest V1 #89

VAL Digest          Sunday, December 7 2003          Volume 01 : Number 089




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] was introduction, now uhaul truck
[VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #87 Towing TT with U-Haul
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] was introduction, now uhaul truck
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
RE: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #87 Towing TT with U-Haul
Re: [VAL] Fall Vintage Advantage
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

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Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:21:16 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] was introduction, now uhaul truck

Dan Childress wrote:

>I also have a 69 18ft caravel.  Tow vehicle is a 02
>Toyota Sienna.  Pulled it up Mt Mitchael in NC. Highest place east of the
>rockies.
>
No offense to North Carolina, but I believe that the Black Hills of 
South Dakota are the highest point east of the Rockies.

Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 Powerwagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA

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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:29:32 EST
From: RESORARCHITECT@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

Hello,
JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't put  
the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to maintain 
system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to accomplish 
this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list if 
anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:53:00 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

we never put toilet paper down the toilet even at home. we use a water hose
to clean up.
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

Hello,
JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't put
the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to maintain
system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to
accomplish
this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list if
anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 22:56:06 -0800
From: "Tuna" <rctowns@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

the infamous 'pyramid of poo' is a common problem with stationary rv's and
trailers that sit for weeks or months between road-trips. Just don't let the
blackwater contents dry out - turns into a pile of papier-mache and solid
wastes.

When i was full-timing, i used 'marine toilet paper' which breaks down more
easily, and used the hand shower to keep the stuff from piling higher and
deeper. If this problem does develop, fill the blackwater tank about
halfway, add a bag of ice cubes, and take the trailer for a short drive down
a bumpy road...

tuna
reno, nv


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RESORARCHITECT@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank


> Hello,
> JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't put
> the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to
maintain
> system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to
accomplish
> this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list if
> anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:27:00 -0500
From: "Myrna Warren" <uncleneal@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

When I remodeled the bath in the first motorhome I bought, there were
zip-lock baggies with used toilet paper in them in the bottoms of the
cabinets and fallen down into every nook and crannie I uncovered.  I think
about those things every time I see a baggie with something white in it.
Neal


> Hello,
> JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't put
> the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to
maintain
> system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to
accomplish
> this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list if
> anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 09:57:10 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #87 Towing TT with U-Haul

Glyn Judson wrote:
> 
>     Kevin and all,
> 
>     I placed a call to the current owner tonight who called back to tell me
> that it's a 2" ball.  Does this suggest that early 1969 models were fitted
> with smaller hitches to deplete old inventory from the year before?
> 
>     Again, thanks to everyone,
> 
>     Glyn
> 

All it proves is that the hitch is 2" diameter. With all the '68 using
2" and the Caravel being the smallest of the year, its logical it remain
at 2" longer than the larger Airstreams. If you don't buy the cheapest
2" ball with the 3/4" stud, the 2" ball can be fairly sturdy, and the
2-5/16" ball can be absolutely brutish.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 09:57:13 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

You'll have even less maintenance if you go outside in the woods. ;<)
But a feature of modern civilization that has added to longevity and a
significant reduction of disease, is the use of toilets and putting the
toilet paper with accompanying fecal matter down the toilet. Toilet
contents, not staying in the sewer or never reaching a sewer in past
centuries lead to many very premature deaths. In the 1890s (and before,
just I read a great many obituaries researching that era in one are) in
rural Missouri sometimes a whole family would die over the time period
of a year, all from the same disease. I blame many of those from the
outhouse being up hill from the spring. Typhoid, Cholera and other
serious and hard to survive diseases traveled that way.

Put the used toilet paper in the toilet! Don't spread disease (or even
stink) with it any place else. You can make it dissolve better by using
special RV paper (at ten times the cost of ordinary toilet paper).
Primarily, leave the drain closed even when hooked up until the black
water tank has nearly filled with solids AND liquid. Add liquid if
necessary to be sure the tank has plenty. Then drain it and close the
drain again. If you drain it constantly, you will develop a lump or cone
of solidified stuff reinforced by paper that can be hard to remove. The
water, ice, and short trip scheme is as good as the special spray wands
sold for the cleaning purpose.

If the toilet paper claims to be safe for septic tanks, its probably
good enough for the black water tank.

My dad told me that one of the organizers of the VAC said at Bismarck in
1993 that if all users of the toilet sit, the wall finishes of the
Airstream's bathroom will stay clean and bright much longer. Urine does
spray and splash otherwise.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:06:00 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

One point that really needs to be made is that you _never_ start with a dry
black water tank.  Put a gallon or so of water in it before each trip so the
stuff doesn't stick.  It also helps in the "sloshing" that breaks it down.

Roger

Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 08:29:37 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

    All,

    Again please let me stick my nose in here.  Or would it be more
appropriate to say "Butt in"?  ; - )   Duuuu!

    Are you all familiar with ODORLOS enzyme head treatment?  It's
popularity is spreading like wildfire in the boating community and I wonder
if it's the same amongst VAC members?

    I recognize that there's a basic difference between how the two systems
work (on land and possibly parked and not moving vs. constantly sloshing
around on a boat) but the odor killing benefits are the same when using the
stuff.  And it's very affordable.

    There's a head system authority in boating circles, Peggy Hall, who
suggests using the cheapest brand (and thinnest) of grocery store toilet
paper.  It will degrade just as well as the expensive stuff made for fast
degrading.  And it's very affordable.  Didn't I just hear that somewhere?

    Glyn

> From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:06:00 -0700
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank
> 
> One point that really needs to be made is that you _never_ start with a dry
> black water tank.  Put a gallon or so of water in it before each trip so the
> stuff doesn't stick.  It also helps in the "sloshing" that breaks it down.
> 
> Roger
> 
> Roger Hightower
> WBCCI #4165,VAC
> 1975 31' Sovereign
> Mesa, AZ
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 11:59:34 -0500
From: Dick Kenan <as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] was introduction, now uhaul truck

>[snip]No offense to North Carolina, but I believe that the Black Hills of 
>South Dakota are the highest point east of the Rockies.

Correct...Mt. Mitchel is 6,684 ft high; Black Hills go up to 7,000 ft.

- - Dick
(5368)

"The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so 
many things that ain't so."
- -- Josh Billings
- ---------------------------------------
Dick Kenan Tel: 770-451-0672
Retired and loving it!
WBCCI # 5368, 28' 1995 Excella
Atlanta
mailto:as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~as5368/ 

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 11:23:24 -0600
From: John Anderson <janderson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

And I thought I learned all I needed to know about this subject in 
kindergarten.....of course I didn't have an Airstream back then.

Serious question/comment for the list: what about the use of one of the 
touted chemicals for RV black tanks? Has anyone found any of them that 
significantly aids in the slurrification and digestion of the black tank 
contents? Or do they simply help with the odor?

John
'66 Sovereign

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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:26:38 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

I have always used the chemicals, whatever I can get for the best price, and
they seem to work.  No odors noted, but then a good toilet flange helps,
too.  A plugged/obstructed vent pipe can cause problems as well.

Roger

Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ

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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 12:35:39 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

Well, after the flurry of "I wouldn't touch that subject" has subsided, 
I would note that us ladies account for a whole bunch of tp use in 
general so before I get any more specific, perhaps we should take this 
offline?
Jo Ann

> Hello,
> JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't 
> put
> the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to 
> maintain
> system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to 
> accomplish
> this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list 
> if
> anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:20:18 -0600
From: DL <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

Looks to me like we are all obsessed with what we leave behind.
We like to make Way more to do about it all.
We don't wash out our pipes at home so why are we trying to add
chemicals and wash out our pipes and tanks on the road.
We are going to use them again are we not?
All we are doing is making some company rich with our obsession.


73
Dean L    W5GXL



On Dec 6, 2003, at 11:26 AM, Roger Hightower wrote:

> I have always used the chemicals, whatever I can get for the best 
> price, and
> they seem to work.  No odors noted, but then a good toilet flange 
> helps,
> too.  A plugged/obstructed vent pipe can cause problems as well.
>
> Roger

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 18:28:11 -0500
From: "Myrna Warren" <uncleneal@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

At home we flush with gallons instead of ounces.




> Looks to me like we are all obsessed with what we leave behind.
> We like to make Way more to do about it all.
> We don't wash out our pipes at home so why are we trying to add
> chemicals and wash out our pipes and tanks on the road.
> We are going to use them again are we not?
> All we are doing is making some company rich with our obsession.
> 
> 
> 73
> Dean L    W5GXL

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:48:40 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank

We use the chemicals so it breaks the waste down and it makes the dump
easier.  It also helps avoid particles that clog the dump valves.  The days
of outhouses are gone.

Roger

Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DL" <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet paper in your black water tank


> Looks to me like we are all obsessed with what we leave behind.
> We like to make Way more to do about it all.
> We don't wash out our pipes at home so why are we trying to add
> chemicals and wash out our pipes and tanks on the road.
> We are going to use them again are we not?
> All we are doing is making some company rich with our obsession.
>
>
> 73
> Dean L    W5GXL

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:21:17 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

A bidet is the best way to go. rig one up in the tub or shower with a hose.
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

Well, after the flurry of "I wouldn't touch that subject" has subsided,
I would note that us ladies account for a whole bunch of tp use in
general so before I get any more specific, perhaps we should take this
offline?
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 18:31:34 -0600
From: "William Durkee" <bdkli@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #87 Towing TT with U-Haul

Kevin,

I just had to reply to let you know that my 69 Sovereign needs a  2" ball.  
I found them with a rating of 8,000 lbs online in several places.  The Shank 
is 1 1/4".  The local hitch dealer had some in stock.

Bill Durkee
1969 Sovereign
03 Ram 1500 Quad


>From: Kevin D Allen <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #87 Towing TT with U-Haul
>Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 22:08:36 -0600
>
>Greetings Glyn!
>
>Unless a previous owner has made changes to the tongue, Airstreams
>produced up through 1968 had a 2" coupler - - usually a Marvel during
>much of the 1960s.  When the redesigned coaches were introduced in 1969,
>the 2 5/16" ball was part of that package.  The biggest concern that I
>have had with my '64 Overlander has been finding a 2" ball with a high
>enough weight rating to safely tow my trailer -

_________________________________________________________________
Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. 
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 19:37:09 EST
From: Gerberss@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fall Vintage Advantage

We hope to be subscribed!  Do we owe money!

steve and sandie

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Cold .jpg]

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:19:29 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

well, there are a few ladies on line. So here goes. Hit the delete key 
if you can't stand it.

I was horrified to hear that some slob put their tp in a zip lock and 
didn't throw the bags away. Yikes.

It really does make the black tank go longer if the #1 tp goes in a bag 
and then in the trash then IN THE DUMPSTER...

I hear in Europe campers put #2 in there too, not me.

And really, is this any worse than picking up after a dog ?

Daisy, who grew up on a farm and ain't scared of s.....

Joann Wheatley wrote:

> Well, after the flurry of "I wouldn't touch that subject" has subsided, 
> I would note that us ladies account for a whole bunch of tp use in 
> general so before I get any more specific, perhaps we should take this 
> offline?
> Jo Ann
> 
>> Hello,
>> JR at Sonrise RV in Escondido, Ca. says " In your RV or trailer don't put
>> the used toilet paper down the drain and you'll have a very easy to 
>> maintain
>> system. Toilet paper is the cause of most tank problems!" Just how to 
>> accomplish
>> this is not clear to us but we'd like some response from the VAL list if
>> anyone has an opinion. Thanks Stuart and Bonnie
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:26:42 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

That's gonna fill up the black tank in a hurry !

Daisy

michelle wrote:

> A bidet is the best way to go. rig one up in the tub or shower with a hose.
> Michelle
> 
> "People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
> will never forget how you made them feel."
> 
> Well, after the flurry of "I wouldn't touch that subject" has subsided,
> I would note that us ladies account for a whole bunch of tp use in
> general so before I get any more specific, perhaps we should take this
> offline?
> Jo Ann
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 23:16:55 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

A quick wash doesn't take much. I started doing that while living on my
sailboat and would never go
back to paper again. Does the shower drain into the black tank?

Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

That's gonna fill up the black tank in a hurry !

Daisy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 22:06:32 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank

NO.  The shower water goes into the grey tank, if you have one.  Otherwise
it goes out the drain.

At some rallies, participants are told to drain their grey water to the
ground under the trailer.....you certainly don't want to put bidet water or
washed waste in the grey water tank.  E Coli isn't something to be messing
with.

Roger

Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet paper in your black water tank


> A quick wash doesn't take much. I started doing that while living on my
> sailboat and would never go
> back to paper again. Does the shower drain into the black tank?
>
> Michelle

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #89
************************


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