VAL Digest V1 #71

VAL Digest        Wednesday, November 19 2003        Volume 01 : Number 071




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Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
[VAL] To buy or not to buy?
RE: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?
[VAL] 12 Volt Problems
RE: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
RE: [VAL] Where's my black tank?
RE: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?
RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re: [VAL] Road worthiness
Re:[VAL] tailight wire question
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
[VAL] Diesel Don
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #52 - Dump valves
[VAL] Globetrotter wastewater question
Re: [VAL] Globetrotter wastewater question
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems/faulty fuse block possible

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:10:27 -0700
From: Ivan <airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: [VAL] Road worthiness

Hello all,

            So my wife and I have to move to California by the first week of
January, and we need to take our '55 overlander with us.  Trouble is, it's
been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and dryness have
taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded and it looks
like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the floor out.  To do
that, I'm going to need to take the rivets from the bottom front out to free
up the belly pan and get at the wires. So this brings up some questions:

1. How do I remove rivets without damaging the skin?

2. What rivets should I use to reattach everything?

3. There is one tear in the belly pan near the section I'm detaching, how
would I patch that tear while I'm there?

    Working on the lights, I realized that the rear lights do not seem to be
the original, is there anyone who makes a decent reproductions of the
original bargman taillights?

    Thanks for the help, a complete set of photos of my overlander can be
seen at http://arcosanti.org/~ivan . The taillights are on page 2.

Thanks!

- -Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:00:17 -0700
From: Brad Norgaard <stream2699@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

Hi Ivan,
Good looking rig you got there. Is mostly original and I really like the
space age bubble on top  :)

Removing rivets is a simple task. Use an 1/8" drill bit and when ready,
replace with the same size aluminum pop rivet on the belly pay. If replacing
where it will show, use Olympic rivets from several sources including
AirstreamDreams or Inland RV. Don't get the ones with the neoprene washers.
Use Vulkem instead.

As far as the tear goes, it really depends on the length and location of the
tear. Maybe I should have studied your photos more because I didn't notice
it. If the tear is flush with the surface, I would just put a patch of
aluminum over it. Seal it up with Vulkem before attaching the patch.

Get that missing vent hole in the ceiling covered before any more rain. I
can offer some assistance in person providing you are not too far away from
Phoenix. Let me know.

Brad Norgaard
Phoenix
'59 Trade Wind Twin
VAC #2699, TCT 



> Hello all,
> 
> So my wife and I have to move to California by the first week of
> January, and we need to take our '55 overlander with us.  Trouble is, it's
> been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and dryness have
> taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded and it looks
> like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the floor out.  To do
> that, I'm going to need to take the rivets from the bottom front out to free
> up the belly pan and get at the wires. So this brings up some questions:
> 
> 1. How do I remove rivets without damaging the skin?
> 
> 2. What rivets should I use to reattach everything?
> 
> 3. There is one tear in the belly pan near the section I'm detaching, how
> would I patch that tear while I'm there?
> 
> Working on the lights, I realized that the rear lights do not seem to be
> the original, is there anyone who makes a decent reproductions of the
> original bargman taillights?
> 
> Thanks for the help, a complete set of photos of my overlander can be
> seen at http://arcosanti.org/~ivan . The taillights are on page 2.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:15:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Tognetti <ctognetti59@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?

Well found out that I would be the third owner if we can work out a price.  Current asking price is $3500.
 
What it needs to be road ready:

   Trailer lights and brakes tested & repaired.  The hook ups on the tongue have been stolen. 
   New shocks. 
   Axle repacked and grease fittings installed.  Tires have been replaced about two years ago and 
so far only seem to need air.  Need new spare tire. 
   Stinky slinkes need to be replaced as they look rotted and are only attached by wire. 
   Door step needs to be welded as to busted on one side. 
   Door needs new seal as it leaks. 
   Need to find were it's leaking as we got a rotten spot between door and front water tanks. 
   All windows need to be work on.  Cranks need to be oiled to get to work and all level locks need 
to be replaced. 
   Ceiling vents need to be oiled and cleaned.  Large front one needs to be replaced total as 
everything is missing. 
   Floor has one rotten spot that I can put my fingers through.  Also a few soft spots.  Needs a new 
covering. 
   Front couch needs to be removed and a dinette installed.  More useful for a family of four. 
   Electric needs to be tested and repaired. 
   Propane needs to be tested and repaired. 
   Plumping needs to be tested and repaired. 
   Front propane tanks are the old steel ones with the old heads.  
   Fridge, Heater, and stove needs to be cleaned, tested, and repaired. 
   Water heater rotted out but he made a need pan for it and that needs to be welded on.  Then installed 
and tested. 
   Toilet needs to be tested and repaired.  Need to make sure the black tank is still in one piece. 
   Need to get a portable blue tank as the grey water just dumps out. 
   All the foam cushion need to be replace as I think they are originals. 
   Plus the hundreds of things I wouldn't fine until I start to do work.
You can see pics at the following web site.  http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=331395
 
Tell me what you think?  Or if you can think of something else that will need to be repaired that I didn't 
list.  Since the aluminum bug has bitten me and Amy we are into it, but I don't think its worth the asking 
price with all the work it needs just to get it on the road.

 
 
Chris, Amy, Natalie, Jordan Tognetti
Willie (Alaskan Malamute)
59 TradeWind
Newton, New Jersey
Serial # 249118





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:13:21 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?

Probably about 3X its value.  From your list below you are looking at
about $8,000-$9,000 in services and parts to get it camp worthy - a lot
more if hire it done or decide to fix those skin dents.
A more realistic price is in the $900-$1300 range, and this time of year
it should be on the lower end - especially if on the east coast.
http://vintageairstream.com/rr_topics_pricevscondition.html

Best of luck,
RJ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctognetti59@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:ctognetti59@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:16 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?
>
>
> Well found out that I would be the third owner if we can work
> out a price.  Current asking price is $3500.
>
> What it needs to be road ready:
>
>    Trailer lights and brakes tested & repaired.  The hook ups
> on the tongue have been stolen.
>    New shocks.
>    Axle repacked and grease fittings installed.  Tires have
> been replaced about two years ago and so far only seem to
> need air.  Need new spare tire.
>    Stinky slinkes need to be replaced as they look rotted and
> are only attached by wire.
>    Door step needs to be welded as to busted on one side.
>    Door needs new seal as it leaks.
>    Need to find were it's leaking as we got a rotten spot
> between door and front water tanks.
>    All windows need to be work on.  Cranks need to be oiled
> to get to work and all level locks need to be replaced.
>    Ceiling vents need to be oiled and cleaned.  Large front
> one needs to be replaced total as everything is missing.
>    Floor has one rotten spot that I can put my fingers
> through.  Also a few soft spots.  Needs a new covering.
>    Front couch needs to be removed and a dinette installed.
> More useful for a family of four.
>    Electric needs to be tested and repaired.
>    Propane needs to be tested and repaired.
>    Plumping needs to be tested and repaired.
>    Front propane tanks are the old steel ones with the old heads.
>    Fridge, Heater, and stove needs to be cleaned, tested, and
> repaired.
>    Water heater rotted out but he made a need pan for it and
> that needs to be welded on.  Then installed and tested.
>    Toilet needs to be tested and repaired.  Need to make sure
> the black tank is still in one piece.
>    Need to get a portable blue tank as the grey water just dumps out.
>    All the foam cushion need to be replace as I think they
> are originals.
>    Plus the hundreds of things I wouldn't fine until I start
> to do work.
> You can see pics at the following web site.
> http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=331395
>
> Tell me what you think?  Or if you can think of something
> else that will need to be repaired that I didn't list.  Since
> the aluminum bug has bitten me and Amy we are into it, but I
> don't think its worth the asking price with all the work it
> needs just to get it on the road.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:24:53 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

Greetings All ...

I'm having a major 12 volt electrical problem with my restored ' 68 Tradewind.
I replaced the old non-functioning Univolt with the InteliPower and Charge
Wizard two years ago which has worked perfectly and continues to do so. Recent
battery maintained properly. My problem is I seem to have lost all 12 VDC in
the trailer. None of the 12V lights work, the water pump is out, the year old
electric jack doesn't work, etc. Last time I checked the battery I got a 12.69
reading on my VOM. Also, on my last trip back from a camping outing, the
trailer tail and turn signal lights were not working. When I got home and
started checking was when I discovered the other 12V problems.

One would guess with everything out, I may have a blown fuse. I have inline
fuses in the both the positive and negative lines to the battery and they test
okay across the fuses. Thought I would replace them anyway just to be sure.

What else could be the problem? Is there something inside the control center
that is causing a problem? Would connecting the umbilical cord to the truck
while the trailer is plugged into 110V shore power have fried something (which
I might accidentally have done on hooking up to head home from our last
outing)? Where do I start trouble shooting this problem? First time I've hit
this one since I started Airstreaming in the mid-70s two trailers ago.

Thanks for the help.

Jim Greene
'68 Tradewind VAC, WDCU, WBCCI  #1148

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:51:01 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] Road worthiness

See responses below,
RJ
VintageAirstream.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.org [mailto:airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:10 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Road worthiness
>
> Hello all,
> So my wife and I have to move to California by
> the first week of
> January, and we need to take our '55 overlander with us.
> Trouble is, it's
> been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and
> dryness have
> taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded
> and it looks
> like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the
> floor out.  To do
> that, I'm going to need to take the rivets from the bottom
> front out to free
> up the belly pan and get at the wires. So this brings up some
> questions:
>
> 1. How do I remove rivets without damaging the skin?

First timers can use an automatic center punch
(http://vintageairstream.com/rr_topics_suppliers.html#tools)
later with experience you'll just put the bit on the rivet head and go.
Use a #22 bit on the bucked rivets and #30 on the pop rivets.

> 2. What rivets should I use to reattach everything?

5/23" Olympic rivets (http://airstreamdreams.com) on the skin rivets -
1/8 pop rivets where they were used. (I use the Olympic rivets on the
belly skin - hold better anyway and cleans up elongated holes.)

>
> 3. There is one tear in the belly pan near the section I'm
> detaching, how
> would I patch that tear while I'm there?

Wouldn't bother with it now - you'll most likely be dropping the skin
anyway.

>
>     Working on the lights, I realized that the rear lights do
> not seem to be
> the original, is there anyone who makes a decent reproductions of the
> original bargman taillights?

http://www.grote.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?familyid=C0037

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:05:04 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

Make sure your battery lug connections are good and that the negative it
making a good ground.
If so start at the positive battery terminal with your VOM and check for
12v, then move to the fuses and check
there and keep moving away from the battery checking until you find where
you are losing your voltage.
hope that helps. With no 12V anywhere and thefuses good it could be a bad
ground. I don't know anything
about the InteliPower and Charge
Wizard just electronics in general.
best,
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:32:06 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

I don't understand how a dry desert can corrode an entire wiring harness.
Are you sure? If so
I'd be real tempted to just add new
wiring outside the walls and make it look nice rather than tearing the whole
thing apart.
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

Trouble is, it's
> been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and
> dryness have
> taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded
> and it looks
> like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the
> floor out.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:42:05 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

The sun is hard on plastics and rubbers it hits, but the dry of the
desert is not a source of corrosions. The U.S. Gov stores airplanes in
the Arizona desert because they last better there than anywhere else,
except in a properly conditioned museum/hanger.

The tow vehicle electrical cable and connector will be in the worst
shape and its quicker to replace them than the try to clean the
connector. There could be a small patch covering a junction of the
internal wiring and that pigtail. There is in newer trailers.

Rivets have been covered, correctly.

In my experience with my '68 Caravel, the light problems were
universally bad grounds. Lights grounded by squeezing plastic with pop
rivets. Look up the word plastic in the dictionary. It means gives way
to pressure and that kills electrical connections. Some like the tail
lights were corroded lamp sockets. A cleaning and then a bit of silicone
dielectric grease to hold out moisture has kept my Caravel working fine
without needing any electrical attention since I did the cleaning and
the clearance light mounting with all metal in the ground circuit.

With everything else required to make the move, I'd consider having the
trailer hauled on a tilt bed truck or a flat bed trailer so I could work
on the trailer in more leisure after the move.

Tires will have suffered a great deal from the desert sun.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:42:12 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?

Ye God's! They are proud of that pile.

There probably will need to be a great deal of attention applied to lamp
fixture grounding, especially the marker lights.

Its uncommon for there to be grease fittings applied to trailer hubs,
sometimes farm equipment hubs though. Stuffing a wheel hub with grease
pushing it out the seal to get on the brakes is a poor substitute for a
proper packing with a much smaller amount of grease. Good grease sticks
around well, gun grease may not necessarily be the best grease for wheel
bearings.

Probably needs nearly the whole floor, or several buckets of epoxy and
some patches. Can mean stripping out the interior to get to all of the
floor. Major work.

Electric, even if good, is probably insufficient for a modern life
style, e.g. too few lights and too few outlets.

Propane can't be neglected. 

Water leaks from freezing may mean replumbing the whole thing. 

Good steel propane tanks can have new valves cheaper than new tanks,
sometimes requires an inspection. If a long time since their last
inspection stamp may require a hydrostatic leak test.

Yes, the asking price is at least 3 times too much for its condition.
Look further.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:42:15 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

LIkely your '68 has aluminium wiring for 12 volts inside as well as 120
volts. Those connections can go bad. Some are doing that in my '68
Caravel. A reading lamp has gone intermittent. The aluminum wires were
not connected with aluminum rated switches, receptacles, or wire nuts.
And were without aluminum connection grease (which is filled with
crystals of zinc to poke holes in the aluminum oxide that is always
present on aluminum in the air). The interior 12 volts may take finding
the bad connection and redoing it with aluminum conductor rated
components. Wire nuts rated for aluminum do exist, but are fairly
expensive. I found some at Home Depot this year. Start at the battery
and work your way towards the loads. If all are out the open(s) have to
be in a common circuit to all, unless there are multiple opens.

The charging isolator in the tow vehicle should have prevented any
conflict between IntelliPower and tow vehicle, even then there shouldn't
have been any conflict to break anything. The signal circuits, turn and
tail, marker (and brake) are totally independent of the trailer 12 volt
circuits except for ground. Separate problems, probably grounding of
fixtures or lamps in corroded sockets. Once cleaned a bit of silicone
dielectric grease will prolong those lamp base connections. All other
connections, especially to the skin for ground need constant pressure
which they can't get through the plastic base of the marker lamp with a
pop rivet and a little dab of aluminum conductor grease can help a lot.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:45:29 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] Where's my black tank?

As each layout and conditions vary, there is not pat answer, but the
general idea is in order to keep the bottom of the trailer streamlined
and critterproof - and to allow room for the dump valve, in a retro-fit
solution you end up using about an 18" x 22" wide or so by 10"-11" high
tank, on which the toilet sits on top, sandwiching the bathroom floor to
the tank, supported from the bottom by straps running between two
frames. Alternatively, you can have the tank fabricator attach an L
flange around the mid section of the tank and support it from the floor.
A black water tank has to relatively square and not too wide.  A 5" high
but long tank works for gray water, but would not work for a black water
tank for obvious reasons.
Tank suppliers are all over the place and ship. They will all build to
spec, including the toilet, dump valve, vent pipe and any rinse head or
sensor flanges you desire.  It is a good idea to have all these
attachments in hand before ordering a tank, so you can spec out the
correct size threads and the like.
Couple of companies are listed here:
http://vintageairstream.com/rr_topics_suppliers.html#parts

Best of luck,
RJ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cmcdonough1@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com [mailto:cmcdonough1@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 4:24 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] RE: VAL Digest V1 #68
>
>
> Where's my black tank?
>
> There is no black tank on this 56 caravanner.  However, it
> does look like
> the belly pan has access panels where a black tank should go.
>  It looks like
> I have about 5" to put a tank under the belly pan.  I have
> read a little of
> the archives and would appreciate any suggestions about what
> size and type
> to install.
> Regards,
> Casey McDonough
> Houston TX

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:51:42 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] Road worthiness

Actually, on a '50's trailer, the splice point from the tongue wire
harness to the trailer wiring is between the inner and outer skins just
above floor level above where you see the wire go into the belly skin.
You have to loosen up and peel back the inner skin to get to it.
Airstream didn't really think the trailers would outlive the life of the
harness I guess.
RJ

 So my wife and I have to move to California by
> the first week of
> January, and we need to take our '55 overlander with us.
> Trouble is, it's
> been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and
> dryness have
> taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded
> and it looks
> like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the
> floor out.  To do
> that, I'm going to need to take the rivets from the bottom
> front out to free
> up the belly pan and get at the wires.>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:32:14 -0500
From: "Phil Renner" <phil.renner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?

Sounds a lot like my 63 Overlander. I paid $1200 2 years ago. But the amount
of work to take on is not unreasonable for that age 'stream. It's just the
price.

Phil Renner
63 Overlander
Guilford, CT




- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Tognetti" <ctognetti59@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "VAL List" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:15 AM
Subject: [VAL] To buy or not to buy?


see pics at the following web site.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=331395
>
> Tell me what you think?  Or if you can think of something else that will
need to be repaired that I didn't list.  Since the aluminum bug has bitten
me and Amy we are into it, but I don't think its worth the asking price with
all the work it needs just to get it on the road.
>
>
>
> Chris, Amy, Natalie, Jordan Tognetti
> Willie (Alaskan Malamute)
> 59 TradeWind
> Newton, New Jersey
> Serial # 249118

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:00:41 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

The trailer/tail lights aren't related to the interior 12 volt system at
all, except where the tow vehicle charge line connects to the battery
(via an isolator) and the breakaway switch on the tongue.  You may have
numerous unrelated problems, but I'd check and make sure the switch
isn't tripped first.
The best way to troubleshoot the 12v wiring is with a test light,
starting at the battery (or converter output), and trace through the
system until you find where it all stops.

Same with the running lights.  Make sure you have power at the tow
vehicle plug, then at the splice point (plate on belly skin panel on
late '60's trailers), then on to the individual lights.  The usual
culprit is the grounds (as Dr.G noted).

Best of luck,
RJ

> My problem is I seem to have
> lost all 12 VDC in
> the trailer. None of the 12V lights work, the water pump is
> out, the year old
> electric jack doesn't work, etc. Last time I checked the
> battery I got a 12.69
> reading on my VOM. Also, on my last trip back from a camping
> outing, the
> trailer tail and turn signal lights were not working.
> When I
> got home and
> started checking was when I discovered the other 12V problems.
>
> One would guess with everything out, I may have a blown fuse.
> I have inline
> fuses in the both the positive and negative lines to the
> battery and they test
> okay across the fuses. Thought I would replace them anyway
> just to be sure.
>
> What else could be the problem? Is there something inside the
> control center
> that is causing a problem? Would connecting the umbilical
> cord to the truck
> while the trailer is plugged into 110V shore power have fried
> something (which
> I might accidentally have done on hooking up to head home
> from our last
> outing)? Where do I start trouble shooting this problem?
> First time I've hit
> this one since I started Airstreaming in the mid-70s two trailers ago.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Jim Greene
> '68 Tradewind VAC, WDCU, WBCCI  #1148

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:11:59 -0700
From: Ivan <airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

Perhaps corrode is the wrong word.  The wires are extremely dried out and
crumbly.  One touch and the shielding crumbles off.  I can't test which
wires go to which because there is nothing but copper showing at this
point....  I'm going to se where the wires go this afternoon when I drop the
belly pan.  Hopefully I can just run new wires from the somewhat protected
ones just under the skin....

- -Ivan



On 11/18/03 12:32 PM, "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net> wrote:

> I don't understand how a dry desert can corrode an entire wiring harness.
> Are you sure? If so
> I'd be real tempted to just add new
> wiring outside the walls and make it look nice rather than tearing the whole
> thing apart.
> Michelle
> 
> "People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
> will never forget how you made them feel."
> 
> Trouble is, it's
>> been sitting in the AZ desert for 10 years, and the sun and
>> dryness have
>> taken their toll.  The wiring harness is completely corroded
>> and it looks
>> like I'll have to rewire the whole thing from inside the
>> floor out.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:51:39 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

Hi Ivan,

Ok, now I get the picture, good luck this afternoon replacing your bad
wires. Whereabouts in Ca?
We are near Santa Cruz.
best,
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

Perhaps corrode is the wrong word.  The wires are extremely dried out and
crumbly.
- -Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:06:43 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Road worthiness

Ivan wrote:
> 
> Perhaps corrode is the wrong word.  The wires are extremely dried out and
> crumbly.  One touch and the shielding crumbles off.  I can't test which
> wires go to which because there is nothing but copper showing at this
> point....  I'm going to se where the wires go this afternoon when I drop the
> belly pan.  Hopefully I can just run new wires from the somewhat protected
> ones just under the skin....
> 
> -Ivan
> 

Sun does that to plastic and rubber insulation. The wiring inside away
for sun exposure should be better. You can purchase a pigtail with a
modern connector and modern color codes ready to attach from many RV
stores that can simplify your work.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:29:42 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re:[VAL] tailight wire question

Chris,

My '60 Overlander is also wired all in red with the # of knots distinguishing
between them. Do you have what each one is used for? This info may come in
handy in the future.

Scott
> > on my 63 , there are 4 wires going back from the access in front . the
factory
> > had a cute way of labeling them ,by tieing knots in them , no knot
,1,2,3 ,
> > knots in each since they are all red . I have three hooked up and have
all the
> > functions brake lights ,turns running lights etc. Whats the fourth one
for? or
> > is something hooked up wrong in my truck (works fine on other trailer .)
> > Also , when perusing the champion trailers excellent tech info , I
noticed they
> > claim the electric brakes should have the ground direct to truck
,without being
> > grounded to trailer ,which is different than I have done in past , I
always
> > grounded to white wire in access area , and added an extra for good
measure .
> > Why wouldnt it be grounded to trailer ?
> > Also how many amps is the circuit breaker for the brakes ,mines to rusty
to
> > tell ...
> > Chris 63 flying cloud , making progress

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:37:18 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

Thanks for the suggestions RJ. Where is the isolator you mentioned? Seems
odd to me that everything goes out at the same time. It seems unlikely that
all the ground connections go bad at once. Is there a main ground somewhere
that might kill everything if it came loose?

I hate electrical problems. ;-)

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems


> The trailer/tail lights aren't related to the interior 12 volt system at
> all, except where the tow vehicle charge line connects to the battery
> (via an isolator) and the breakaway switch on the tongue.  You may have
> numerous unrelated problems, but I'd check and make sure the switch
> isn't tripped first.
> The best way to troubleshoot the 12v wiring is with a test light,
> starting at the battery (or converter output), and trace through the
> system until you find where it all stops.
>
> Same with the running lights.  Make sure you have power at the tow
> vehicle plug, then at the splice point (plate on belly skin panel on
> late '60's trailers), then on to the individual lights.  The usual
> culprit is the grounds (as Dr.G noted).
>
> Best of luck,
> RJ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:50:48 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

The isolator is usually at the point where the blue charge line attaches
to the battery circuit.  Since you don't have the original Uni-Volt, all
bets are off as to where that is - or even if it is there at all. The
only common ground would be the battery cable, but it has nothing to do
with the running lights.  If the 12 volt system doesn't on the 110v
converter, then something in the control center has fried, as that is
the common point between the battery and converter circuits.
Best of luck,
RJ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:37 PM
> To: drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net; valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
>
>
> Thanks for the suggestions RJ. Where is the isolator you
> mentioned? Seems
> odd to me that everything goes out at the same time. It seems
> unlikely that
> all the ground connections go bad at once. Is there a main
> ground somewhere
> that might kill everything if it came loose?
>
> I hate electrical problems. ;-)
>
> Jim Greene
> ' 68 Tradewind

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:48:54 -0800
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

> Thanks for the suggestions RJ. Where is the isolator you mentioned? Seems
> odd to me that everything goes out at the same time. It seems unlikely
that
> all the ground connections go bad at once. Is there a main ground
somewhere
> that might kill everything if it came loose?
>
> I hate electrical problems. ;-)
>
> Jim Greene
> ' 68 Tradewind

Hey Jim:

I'm sitting here staring at a diagram called LOW VOLTAGE PANEL SCHEMATIC in
my manual.  There really is not all that much to it.  The 12V stuff should
run even with the charging line and the Univolt (or whatever)
disconnected...IF...a charged battery is connected and the associated 40 amp
fuses aren't blown.  You have battery voltage entering the box (fused in and
out) and 3 - 12V circuits leaving the box via the circuit breakers.  The
charging line just plugs in as does the Univolt positive at the upstream end
of the breakers along with the battery voltage.

If you don't have this schematic I can scan one and send it to you as well
as the general wiring diagram for a '67 Tradewind.  Should be similar if not
identical to '68.  Lemme know.

GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:00:45 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

Thanks, Gary ...

I think I have the wiring diagram in the ' 68 Owner's Manual. I'll check and
if it isn't in there I'll accept your kind offer.

Now I'm looking for sufficient motivation to tackle the wiring.  ;-)

Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind



- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems


>
> Hey Jim:
>
> I'm sitting here staring at a diagram called LOW VOLTAGE PANEL SCHEMATIC
in
> my manual.  There really is not all that much to it.  The 12V stuff should
> run even with the charging line and the Univolt (or whatever)
> disconnected...IF...a charged battery is connected and the associated 40
amp
> fuses aren't blown.  You have battery voltage entering the box (fused in
and
> out) and 3 - 12V circuits leaving the box via the circuit breakers.  The
> charging line just plugs in as does the Univolt positive at the upstream
end
> of the breakers along with the battery voltage.
>
> If you don't have this schematic I can scan one and send it to you as well
> as the general wiring diagram for a '67 Tradewind.  Should be similar if
not
> identical to '68.  Lemme know.
>
> GQ '67 Safari
> 4082 in CA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:06:09 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

That's kind of what I was afraid of. Something fried.
If the isolator wasn't part of the Univolt than I haven't done anything with
it but the PO may have. One never knows. Incidentally, my XP spell checker
doesn't like Univolt and wants to change it to uncivil. Irony.

Jim Greene
'68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems


> The isolator is usually at the point where the blue charge line attaches
> to the battery circuit.  Since you don't have the original Uni-Volt, all
> bets are off as to where that is - or even if it is there at all. The
> only common ground would be the battery cable, but it has nothing to do
> with the running lights.  If the 12 volt system doesn't on the 110v
> converter, then something in the control center has fried, as that is
> the common point between the battery and converter circuits.
> Best of luck,
> RJ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:02:01 -0500
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Diesel Don

Hi Guys, 

Here's a piece of information that could be of interest to diesel owners.

Terry 

- ----------------


on 11/16/03 7:23 PM, AirstreamList@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

> I went out to the end of Long Island to see the truck at a dealer that only
> sells Chevy trucks. I'd be afraid to have it serviced at a dealer that didn't
> have diesel experience. But this is a 45 min. drive each way! I don't even
> have a gas station here in  my town that sells diesel! Long Island is rough
> for people with trucks and trailers!

Patti,

Why don't you talk with Don Montegari (800.832.8844) about buying a diesel
truck? His diesel shop is on Long Island. It is at 74 Bell Street in West
Babylon, NY 11704. He writes a monthly newsletter ($30 yearly) for diesel
owners. I've subscribed to it for the entire time we've owned our diesel
suburban. The previous owner of our suburban also subscribed to Don's
newsletter and kept all the copies. I read every new issue the day it
arrives and have reread all the old copies many times.

You have my permission to tell Don that I recommended contacting him. Don
has helped me four times by phone in four different parts of the country
when my diesel truck needed service. I have come to regard him as a friend.

The first two times, Don provided free consultation to the mechanic. On both
occasions, I was in a diesel garage and the mechanic was standing next to
me. I told him about Don and his consultation offer. Each time, the mechanic
encouraged me to call Don, which I did and described my problem, then asked
Don to talk with the mechanic. He agreed and I handed my cell phone to the
mechanic. They discussed the problem and how to solve it. Very simple and
straight forward - plus the mechanic was highly appreciative. Both instances
resulted in a successful repair.

On a third occasion, Don had the exact part in stock when the correct part
wasn't available locally. I asked Don to ship it to the mechanic overnight
express. He did and this saved our bacon in spades.

On the fourth occasion, I called Don from a remote campground when my diesel
truck wouldn't start. He walked me through the process of testing components
(with my head under the hood, the phone next to my ear and following his
directions). I did as he said, then got back in the truck, turned the key
and the truck started. I took the truck to a diesel garage, explained what I
had done to get it started and the mechanic knew exactly how to fix the
problem.  He fixed it and the truck has run fine ever since.

Bottom line, in addition to going to Don's garage and talking with him, you
might want to consider becoming a yearly subscriber to his newsletter just
for the benefit of having your own private expert at your elbow -- at the
other end of your cell phone -- no matter where you are on the continent.
On the other hand, the On-Star service may be all you want or need.

Terry

mailto:tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net

"It is not so much our friends' help that helps us as the confident
knowledge that they will help us." Epicurus

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:56:04 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

There is a fairly good schematic of the 12 system (ignoring signal and
marker lamps) in the '68 owner's manual. The signal and car wiring as
well as the distribution panel schematics are on page 48 with the
individual schematics on the pages before that.

Train the spell checker to accept new words or to be quiet.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:13:11 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems

Something in a nice Cabernet Sauvignon, for example ?

;}
Daisy

Jim Greene wrote:

> Thanks, Gary ...
> 
> I think I have the wiring diagram in the ' 68 Owner's Manual. I'll check and
> if it isn't in there I'll accept your kind offer.
> 
> Now I'm looking for sufficient motivation to tackle the wiring.  ;-)
> 
> Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems
> 
> 
> 
>>Hey Jim:
>>
>>I'm sitting here staring at a diagram called LOW VOLTAGE PANEL SCHEMATIC
> 
> in
> 
>>my manual.  There really is not all that much to it.  The 12V stuff should
>>run even with the charging line and the Univolt (or whatever)
>>disconnected...IF...a charged battery is connected and the associated 40
> 
> amp
> 
>>fuses aren't blown.  You have battery voltage entering the box (fused in
> 
> and
> 
>>out) and 3 - 12V circuits leaving the box via the circuit breakers.  The
>>charging line just plugs in as does the Univolt positive at the upstream
> 
> end
> 
>>of the breakers along with the battery voltage.
>>
>>If you don't have this schematic I can scan one and send it to you as well
>>as the general wiring diagram for a '67 Tradewind.  Should be similar if
> 
> not
> 
>>identical to '68.  Lemme know.
>>
>>GQ '67 Safari
>>4082 in CA
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:27:23 GMT
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #52 - Dump valves

My trailer has Owens (now Dupree) Products valves. They are 25 years old and all they need 
replacd is the shoe seal (rubber part) and maybe a couple of O rings. Two screws hold the 
valve internals in. If you don't want to wrestle with working a new seal in, the whole paddle 
isn't much more.
This valve has been in production for over 35 years and is being used in the food industry. 
Newell uses it, also Greyhound.
Al

- ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:14:00 -0500
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Waste Water Tank Questions

There is a big price difference between Thetford valves and Valterra valves.
You heard the old adage "you get what you pay for".
I replaced my dump valves last year and went back with the Thetford.
Figured if the ones that were on the trailer lasted 25-30 years,
then I'd go back with the same brand and not have to replace them in a few years.
When I was working at Suncoast RV we used to have people come in all the time to have their Valterra valves replaced.
Bobby
'73 Ambassador

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:41:01 -0500
From: "C B Rollins" <canartgrp@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Globetrotter wastewater question

Hi guys- my silly question: I've not really used the plumbing on our 62 
GlobeTrotter but I did fill the water tank and blew it and the water heater 
out in prep for cold weather; I blew alot of water down the sinks but now 
can't get the wastewater tank to empty. Manual shows an apparently non 
existent device inside the bathroom- all I can find is a square section rod 
sticking out the hind end curbside witch doesen't do anything when I turn 
it. Do I push/pull/twist/whatever this gadget?  Thanks!  CB Rollins  South 
Amherst Massachusetts

_________________________________________________________________
Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95.  
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:08:58 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Globetrotter wastewater question

Pull it. Actually, in a '62, the sink and bath water would all just go 
in the ground, that was legal back then. The handle is for the black 
water tank. You may have a modified system, or the water is already on 
the ground...


Daisy ( also in MA)

C B Rollins wrote:

> Hi guys- my silly question: I've not really used the plumbing on our 62 
> GlobeTrotter but I did fill the water tank and blew it and the water 
> heater out in prep for cold weather; I blew alot of water down the sinks 
> but now can't get the wastewater tank to empty. Manual shows an 
> apparently non existent device inside the bathroom- all I can find is a 
> square section rod sticking out the hind end curbside witch doesen't do 
> anything when I turn it. Do I push/pull/twist/whatever this gadget?  
> Thanks!  CB Rollins  South Amherst Massachusetts
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95.  
> https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:26:16 EST
From: Imp67cc64@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Problems/faulty fuse block possible

In a message dated 11/18/2003 5:38:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:

> I hate electrical problems. ;-)
> 
> Jim Greene
> ' 68 Tradewind
> 
> 

Jim,
When I bought my 77 Excella, I had a similar problem and found that I had 12v 
coming into the fuse box but not going through the grid to the individual 
circuits that have seperate breakers.  In my case, it seems that the rivets or 
connectors that assembled the metal fuse grid had lost their ability to transfer 
the current.  I found that if i took a jumper wire from incoming power feed 
to individual circuits, I would get power.  My fix was to seperately wire an 
in-line fuse for each circuit to eliminate the actual fuse grid.  
I believe you are fairly close by in north Atlanta.  If the trailer is here, 
I would be more than happy to look at it with you one evening.  Email 
privately is you need a hand.

John 

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #71
************************


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