The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #130
VAL Digest Saturday, January 17 2004 Volume 01 : Number 130
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] RE: A/C power
[VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
Re: [VAL] RE: A/C power
[VAL] Black water tank
Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
[VAL] (no subject)
Re: [VAL] Black water tank
Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
[VAL] Roof standing
[VAL] polishing
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #129
Re: [VAL] Roof standing
Re: [VAL] Black water tank
Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
Re: [VAL] Roof standing
Re: [VAL] Polishing
Re: [VAL] Black water tank
[VAL] 22' Fixer Upper
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 01:21:05 -0600
From: "David Beard" <dbeard@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] RE: A/C power
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:08:08 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #128 - 50A, 30A power
Sometimes the 30 amp and the 20 amp receptacles on a pedestal will have
been wired to opposite sides of the 240 volt supply so that an adapter
for the 240 volt plug that supplies one side from each can result in
supplying 240 volts at 20 amps to the camper. Sometimes one needs to run
to a separate pedestal for the other phase.
A simpler adapter would connect both sides of the 240 volt plug to the
hot side of the 30 amp receptacle. Then all 120 volt appliances and
loads would work but no 240 volt appliances. My vintage standby
generator has only 120 volts on its output and that is how I run this
house from the generator. Its wired that way. I could add an
autotransformer, but frankly, when I'm running on the generator, I don't
want to power the 240 equipment, the generator isn't big enough to do
them well and I can wait for nicer weather to dry a load of clothes or
have a hot bath. The gas furnace an the microwave only need 120 volts as
does the water pump.
Gerald J.
- - --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
No adapter should ever be used to take 120 VAC from a 3 pole 240 VAC
receptical. 120 VAC recepticals have a hot leg, a common and a ground.
Most common 240 VAC recepticals have three poles, two hot legs and a
ground. You can get 120 VAC from ground to either hot leg, but it's not
safe. A four pole receptical has two hot legs, a ground and a neutral.
It can safe to use an adapter to get 120 VAC from this type of
receptical, if you know what is there. I should note that many states
have now banned the sale of adapters for this purpose. The most common
connection for 240 VAC is 120-0-120, all in a single phase relationship.
In some cases the 240 VAC will be supplied from a three phase system.
The result can be 240 VAC with 120-0-120, BUT 208 VAC to ground!
Gerald says "A simpler adapter would connect both sides of the 240 volt
plug to the hot side of the 30 amp receptacle." Connecting both sides of
the 240 VAC together will result in a short circuit. I'm sure this was
just a typo, but don't try it. The resulting arc and/or fire will not be
pleasant. Also, an auto transformer larger enough to supply a washer or
dryer would weigh so much that it would not be worth the weight to bring
along. Remember that by going from 120 VAC to 240 VAC. The current
doubles. That is, if you want 20 amps at 240 VAC, then you must supply
40 amps at 120 VAC to get it. Better to just use the washer and dryer at
the park or step up to a bigger gen set.
Dave Beard
- ----
No copyright, not an electrical engineer. The E/E's just hire me when
they can't figure it out. Distribute freely. It's just common sense.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:53:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
Hey all - wondering if anyone has any ideas for this
lady?
Toby
====================================================
Hi there... Al Roker's Roker On the Road show (Food
Network) is looking for a story about vintage campers
and food. Any intesting ideas for us? Tell us
please! Email me with tel number and time to call
Melissa Rose
producer, Roker On the Road
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:18:03 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] RE: A/C power
No Dave. 240 volt RV receptacles that meed code have four pins, two,
hots, neutral and ground. Connecting a 120 volt adapter is safe. The
adaptor won't fit the old 240 volt range receptacle that has ground and
neutral wired together.
240 volts line to line three phase gives 138 volts line to neutral, not
208. That 138 is just about as hard on lamps as 208 though. Connecting
both sides of a 240 volt load together so each leg gets 120 volts to
neutral but nothing between the 240 volt lines IS a short of those 240
volt LOADS but is NOT a short of the power source. I've been doing that
here and in my barn for up to 25 years. I connect the generators through
interlocked circuit breakers or a transfer switch depending on the
location. I KNOW it works. NO ARC, NO SHORT, NO OVERLOAD. The 240 volt
range, the 240 dryer, and the 240 volt water heater get no power and
don't work.
Electricians and plant owners hire ME when they can't figure out their
circuits.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:08:10 -0800 (PST)
From: M Tate <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Black water tank
Hello list, the holidays are over and the time to
start work again is here. I plan to install the black
water tank next week and need some advise.
I have both the new tank and sheet metal enclosure. It
seems that on the original installation, there was a
molded foam tank enclosure. Is this correct?
My tank and enclosure were destroyed when the tree
fell on the rear. So, what would everyone suggest to
use for the foam to keep the tank secure?
I thought about rigid foam insulation, cut to tightly
fit, but I worry about the foam crushing and settling
over time.
It seems that the enclosure will not be strong enough
to hold the tank securely by itself. I plan to use
alum. strips around the flange and running screws
through both the strip and flange for added strength.
Any suggestions for added strength?
All help will greatly appreciated
=====
Mark, Pennie and Rachel
'65 Overlander Land Yacht
__________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:21:50 -0500
From: Matt Worner <wornmatt@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
I'd suggest visiting a vintage rally and seeing how the pot lucks come
out. At the WDCU installation there was even an impromptu pot luck
installation dinner!
Do you have the e-mail address?
Matt
Toby Folwick wrote:
> Hey all - wondering if anyone has any ideas for this
> lady?
>
> Toby
>
> ====================================================
>
> Hi there... Al Roker's Roker On the Road show (Food
> Network) is looking for a story about vintage campers
> and food. Any intesting ideas for us? Tell us
> please! Email me with tel number and time to call
>
> Melissa Rose
> producer, Roker On the Road
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 12:38:36 EST
From: Streamliner86@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] (no subject)
Tom sorry for the empty mail before..
Phil,
It doesn't get very cold here so I don't have a lot of information on cold
weather polishing. From GAS's comments, it would appear that the main problem
is
that the polish gets to stiff. I suspect that the heat from friction at the
point where the pad contacts the surface warms things up enough to make the
polishing process work. But it could make removal of the residual polish
difficult. After hand-wiping the surface with an old towel to remove as much
residual
polish as possible, I do a wipe-down with mineral spirits to remove
the remaining polishing compound from around rivet heads and seams. This
method should
still work in cold weather but the process will go more slowly.
I'll ask Nuvite if they have any suggestions.
Tom Numelin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:57:52 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Black water tank
The extruded foams (often gray or blue) and the foil faced foams aren't
bad structurally. Try squeezing between thumb and forefinger. The white
foams made of expanded beads (and the beads still show) are
significantly poorer structurally.
You might check with a shipping store for foam in place materials that
would get the tightest fit between the tank and the enclosure. You might
want to build a temporary frame around the enclosure to restrain the
open edges and the middles of the flat surfaces when that foam expands,
but that would guarantee a perfect fit and that foam is designed to
withstand impact. I don't know about its longevity though. I'd trust the
extruded foams from Dow much better though fitting them really snuggly
can be more of a problem.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:43:23 -0500
From: "Jim Stewart" <9stewart@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
How about the Florida State WBCCI rally next month? The VAC generally has a
large turn out there.
Jim
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Worner" <wornmatt@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
> I'd suggest visiting a vintage rally and seeing how the pot lucks come
> out. At the WDCU installation there was even an impromptu pot luck
> installation dinner!
>
> Do you have the e-mail address?
>
> Matt
>
> Toby Folwick wrote:
> > Hey all - wondering if anyone has any ideas for this
> > lady?
> >
> > Toby
> >
> > ====================================================
> >
> > Hi there... Al Roker's Roker On the Road show (Food
> > Network) is looking for a story about vintage campers
> > and food. Any intesting ideas for us? Tell us
> > please! Email me with tel number and time to call
> >
> > Melissa Rose
> > producer, Roker On the Road
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:46:14 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
He could always come to the Rocky Mountain VAC Rally in August. Pot lucks
and group cookouts there.
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:04:38 -0600
From: "William Durkee" <bdkli@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Roof standing
Is it ok to stand on the top of the Airstream? I have to replace the gear
on the antenna. I thought the most convenient place to be working on it was
from above while on the top.
Bill Durkee
1969 Sovereign
03 Ram 1500 Quad
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:39:48 EST
From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] polishing
In a message dated 1/16/04 1:03:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
> Having just received both the DeWalt and
> Cyclo is it neccessary to start off with the DeWalt?
>
Patti
I started polishing in September and put in 40 hours polishing before I found
what worked for me! I read all I could find and tried them all. I tried the
Cyclo only and eureka I thought I was home free. One panel came out Great!
Tried on several other panels without luck. Tried SS, which a number of people
swear by, but didn't get the high clear polish. I started compounding with F
grade and then Cyclo with F and S. Results very good but not 100% varied with
panel! I ran out of F(1lb size ) and thought I'd try C and G. I was AMAZED at the
difference when I compounded with G panels came out Great with little effort.
I had tried compounding 3-4 times with F and came nowhere near the results!
I finished the rear end after compounding using C and S with the Cyclo and
started down the curb side I reached the door before cold weather shut me down.
I would strongly recommend you try all four grades of Nuvite to find what
works best for you! To get the mirror shine with a clear reflection I needed the
G compound.
After stripping the clear coat My trailer looked pretty good to most people
and I thought I could get by with the F. It will save you time if you start
with all four grades!
Good Luck
Paul
Troy MI
'78 31' RB sovereign
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:12:30 -0500
From: Jerry Jarrell <jdj2@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #129
> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:33:47 -0500
> From: "Patricia V. Raimondo" <praimond@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: [VAL] Re: Polishing
>
> Hi All,
>
> Spoke to Rick March at the A/S plant yesterday and work on my 54 Flying
> Cloud has begun! In conversation, Rick mentioned that his guys had
> polished a 62 trailer at the plant and that they didn't start with the
> compounder. They used the cyclo with different grades of polish and
> said the result was smooth. Having just received both the DeWalt and
> Cyclo is it neccessary to start off with the DeWalt?
>
> Patti
> Long Island, NY
> 1954 Flying Cloud
> 2003 Safari
> 02 2500 Suburban
> WBCCI # 3321
> Washington DC Unit
> VAC
>
>
Hi Patti, regarding polishing there is one thing I found out
when I began polishing a 27'footer. Go to every site that talks
about polishing and absorb everything that they say. Then decide
on the polish (Nuvite, etc) and get on top of the Airstream and
try the compounder and the Cyclo according to the instructions
with the polish. What I am saying is to experiment on top out
of site and you will find what is best for your TT. Mine was
terribly corroded and the compounder really cut away the corrosion
much quicker with nuvite polish. However, it also leaves scratch
marks which the Cyclo clone I have was used to take them out and
bring the TT to a really nice shine (some of the scratches are
still there due to health problems). Polishing is a ordeal that
takes patience and a lots of elbow grease! But the end results
is worth it. My neighbor thought I had gone off on the deep end
and bought a new Airstream!!! No one out here in the boonies where
we live (rural) believes it is a 1957 model. That's fine with
me! :) Just remember - read, experiment and be patient.
Take care and God Bless!
Jerry (in GA below the gnat-line and the snow!)
57 Overlander WBCCI VAC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:12:23 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roof standing
Bill,
Yes it is safe. But, there are some guidelines to be aware of.
Once on the roof the use of carpet, reversed, or a blanket or toweling to
protect the skin from whatever is on your shoes is recommended.
Getting on the roof can be done a number of ways. One of the simpler ways uses
the patio awning case as a step over point from an 8' step ladder. Another is to
put padding on an extension ladder were it contacts the awning case. Several
other folks on the list have other ideas as well.
Charlie
William Durkee wrote:
> Is it ok to stand on the top of the Airstream? I have to replace the gear
> on the antenna. I thought the most convenient place to be working on it was
> from above while on the top.
>
> Bill Durkee
> 1969 Sovereign
> 03 Ram 1500 Quad
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up fast & reliable Internet access with prime
> features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
>
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:11:19 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Black water tank
Hi M. Tate,
Sorry I haven't followed the thread, just tune in infrequently when a
computer is available.
To be sure, there is a foam surround inside the sheet metal housing for the
black water tank. The foam that contacts the tank consists of a series of
pylons about 3 inches in diameter. The follow the contour of the bottom of
the tank to provide support and maintain the proper drainage. The pylons
are to allow warm air from the furnace to flow around the tank and prevent
it from freezing. Same as other areas behind bulkheads for the bathroom
plumbing, and the potable water tank (pump), etc. This is the reason I used
the original foam and filled in with urethane foam from Lowe's, NOT LATEX.
You could use the blue home insulation. And on a flat piece, glue circles
such that the top of the tank would be covered with a sheet of the same blue
insulation, yet level with the top of the sheet metal housing. The tank
must be held up so as there isn't any tension on the toilet fastener thought
the floor. If this hangs, it will shortly break out the top of the tank.
My opinion that it's important that the unit be forced up against the floor
to keep it from bouncing inside the housing.
You may use polyurethane foam and just fill under and over the tank if you
can keep the drainage level proper and maintain about 1 inch foam around all
the sides and top of the tank. Sort of defeats the purpose of the Airstream
engineered heating of the holding tank. Messy when it freezes during a long
cold day/night and you can't get the ice to thaw enough to dump the filled
tank! Personally, the blue foam seems better as it's hard enough to stay in
place, can be glued, and should have a long life as it's used for home
insulation. Think the stuff is polypropylene or something like that. Other
than this, I'd sure get a unit with both black water and gray water tank as
an original accessory.
I'm not sure what the felled tree had to do with the tank housing problem,
but . . . If the housing was rusted out, the holding brackets, if it has
them (some models in the early 60 screwed the sheet metal directly to the
floor). Newer models have a cross support of angle iron to support the tank
housing and thus the tank. Keep in mind that the toilet hold down screws
out of the holding tank - counter clockwise to loosen and it can be very
tight. I welded a tool to remove the hold down, but used a not OEM hold
down for the replacement.
Don't know if this helps, but . . . the advice/information is free and
mostly that is about what it's worth.
Regards, '69
Safari, Joy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "M Tate" <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: [VAL] Black water tank
> Hello list, the holidays are over and the time to
> start work again is here. I plan to install the black
> water tank next week and need some advise.
> I have both the new tank and sheet metal enclosure. It
> seems that on the original installation, there was a
> molded foam tank enclosure. Is this correct?
> My tank and enclosure were destroyed when the tree
> fell on the rear. So, what would everyone suggest to
> use for the foam to keep the tank secure?
> I thought about rigid foam insulation, cut to tightly
> fit, but I worry about the foam crushing and settling
> over time.
> It seems that the enclosure will not be strong enough
> to hold the tank securely by itself. I plan to use
> alum. strips around the flange and running screws
> through both the strip and flange for added strength.
> Any suggestions for added strength?
> All help will greatly appreciated
>
>
> =====
> Mark, Pennie and Rachel
> '65 Overlander Land Yacht
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:15:16 -0500
From: Blair <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roker on the road looking for events -
How about it Pearl can you help them out??
Blair
At 09:53 AM 1/16/2004, you wrote:
>Hey all - wondering if anyone has any ideas for this
>lady?
>
>Toby
>
>====================================================
>
>Hi there... Al Roker's Roker On the Road show (Food
>Network) is looking for a story about vintage campers
>and food. Any intesting ideas for us? Tell us
>please! Email me with tel number and time to call
>
>Melissa Rose
>producer, Roker On the Road
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
>http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:23:12 -0500
From: Blair <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Roof standing
Not all roof seems are for weight distribution. I'd suggest an articulated
ladder.
About $125.00 at ACE slightly cheaper at Wally World, but safer.
Sliding off an Airstream roof is not only embarassing but painful.
Blair
At 03:04 PM 1/16/2004, you wrote:
>Is it ok to stand on the top of the Airstream? I have to replace the gear
>on the antenna. I thought the most convenient place to be working on it
>was from above while on the top.
>
>Bill Durkee
>1969 Sovereign
>03 Ram 1500 Quad
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up fast & reliable Internet access with prime
>features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:05:41 -0700
From: Rob Davis <rob-iod@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Polishing
Patti,
The other posts have pretty much covered the issue. I prefer Nuvite,
but some in our unit like other products. At a rally last year a couple
of us tried various methods to see what worked best. The one thing we
did agree on was that the combination of first compounding and then
cyclo polishing worked the best in our testing. I swear by the methods
detailed on the Manning's web site. Glad to hear the factory finally
got started, keep us posted!
Rob Davis
'64 GlobeTrotter
WBCCI #1824, VAC
Patricia V. Raimondo wrote:
> Having just received both the DeWalt and Cyclo is it neccessary to
> start off with the DeWalt?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 20:17:28 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Black water tank
The blue and gray Dow foams are polystyrene. They can be glued, but the
glue can't be solvent based. There's a Contech PL300 foam panel glue
that works. It comes in a tube like caulk. There's also an Elmer's latex
contact adhesive that works quite well. Other adhesives will eat the
foam rapidly if not instantly. I've used both on blue foam board. The
contact cement is handy for stacking up layers of thin foam to make
thick foam. I've done that and the sculpted the foam to make a model of
a knoll on a farm.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:31:53 -0500
From: "C B Rollins" <canartgrp@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] 22' Fixer Upper
Well, the hoity toity neighbors have chosen the frozenest most below zero
part of the year to start hassling us about the Airstreams next to the
house ( which are in violation of the ' owner's assoc. agreement' which also
outlaws wash on the line, unapproved fences, ham radio antennas, your
business name on your truck in your driveway, etc. ) In any case, the
unpolished single axle Tradewind with no furnace, punky floor next to the
door, dent in rear quarter and general disarray incl no mattresses or drapes
will probably go up for sale for BRO over $2000. Fridge stove and rear bath
are all intact but I have no idea what actually works; also has ZipDee
awning which is too long for my Globetrotter but I may have to swap my
'Streamin pal up the street for various considerations... In any case I
picked this up off of eBay last fall in upstate NY, and it's now residing in
ever so respectable Amherst Massachusetts. If interested contact me at
canartgrp@xxxxxxxxxx.com (Hope this blatant ad doesn't violate any list rules
over here- I guess I can stick it in VAC classifieds if need be) Thanks!
Chris Rollins
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #130
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